NyanaCreation 2018-07-07 19:13:16

true muscians take a risk but they know what the risks are but that is the same for artists, voice actors, the lgbt community youtubers etc, but most courageous and most driven people on earth you can't really say. yes they have challenges on there path but it all depends on the person. of course pouring your love and soul into something like music is rewarding but it also brings rejection like with everything. it is the same for me with helping out people and creating what i love. but there are real jobs for musiscians. here it is even learned on schools and for collage it can be choosen and you can get a well payed job out of it but still courageous and most driven people i disagree. it all depends on the person and how there life is. they can also have such a supportive family and get more mile stones than there friends. yes they have to deal with rejection of there job choice or have to deal with financial challanges but everyone can have that. it are not problems that are uncommen for others. it is the same for just artists, voice actors, youtubers etc. from what i know the people who deal with the most rejection are, non-binary, bi-sexual, trans people, darker skinned people and other lgbt people who get rejected just because they look like themself or don't fit the social stereo type and it doesn't make them courageous or driven.(btw i want to make clear that i am okay with whoever you are, and it doesn't matter to me what your gender is, how you look or who you choose to be. for me what matters is the personality and i accept everyone except if your a liar and betray people and you hurt me in a horrible way that is the only way i will or can kick someone out of my life)

anyway people are courageous and driven because how there being treated and what there actions are from that (the good ones) but i don't think it i fair to say that musiscians are the most couragous and driven people because you can't judge that from one or two people and rule out everyone else. that is not fair to others. of course there are musicians who are but that is not because they have so many challanges in there life. it is because how they react to them (in a good way) and how they deal with them. it is not because there one thing. it is because who they are not because there one word because some are not courageous and driven and still are musicians. so you can't really judge. some go trough hard challenges trough there life and some don't have to strugle that much. it doesn't make one group better than another. it depends on the person and you have to look at them indivitually to see if they are and even then it is an opinion and not an fact. i am glad your so confident about it but remember not only musicians are that but alot of other people are to and some are not. but you can figure out that by yourself. it is okay if you disagree but please answer with respect. anyway i hope you understand where i am coming from.

FelixZophar 2018-07-07 21:10:02

I just gave you 100 fans... :D

Troisnyx 2018-07-08 02:22:36

@NyanaCreation IMHO, and just basing it on the profession, VAs can be quite straightforward. Art may not be, but it's certainly a visual medium that people can connect to. The struggles people go through to get there, I won't deny: but on NG alone, to say nothing about elsewhere, it's always the musicians that get short shrift.

I'm not merely basing it on the fact that I was ordered on pain of death from my own family to do law and abandon music, from people who could kill me. I'm a minority too, and minorities -- whether by ethnicity or sexual orientation -- have it insanely hard.

It's the fact that there is zero recognition for far more musicians than videographers, artists, programmers. Look on NG: Who has the most fans? Apart from a few blips here and there the vast majority of them are either animators, programmers, or have been involved in some high-profile game.

It's also the fact that outside of actual art circles, people's attitudes towards music are especially cheap. That may be the case for art and VA for instance, but I have seen way more loads of people ask other musicians for theme tunes without any remuneration.

Also, art and VA can be readily seen after a short time, unless one is working on a magnum opus. Video (in animation) and music take much longer. If you're resilient you'll still have naysayers and fans get to you about how unnecessarily long a song is taking, when you need to take your time to make it perfect.

NyanaCreation 2018-07-08 07:50:18

@Troisnyx that can be true, i can't say for sure because i am not a musician and they might have to face that but you still can't say that they are the most courages and driven people. mabey you are and your musician friends are as well but it is litterly shutting out everyone else. i get that people do not appreaciate others enough and that it is frustrating but compairing your group to be supirior over others because you have the harder challenges is not fair as well as everyones challenges in the music industry is different. it doesn't matter how many fans you have if you enjoy what your doing. and i am sorry that you where forced into something you didn't want but for me the simple solution is don't go. here the choice isn't what the parents put you in but what you deside to do with your parents and the school and if you obey them or make yourself happy but i can understand if you where not able to choose at all. what i find horrible because it is your life not there's. i can understand that that it is horrible and that family is ''everything'' (for me there is so much family drama that i don't care anymore and i have one person of the family i care about) anyway but that gives you a history where you acted on and not because your a musician. you wanted to do something they didn't aprove and are still doing it now. the acting makes you courages and driven not the part that your a musician.

and don't forget that programmers, artists and videographers also get hit down hard. if you look at the art portal yes they are all acepted and are awesome with there skills but that is the good part. before that you get judged hard, get the most insulting messages that down talk you because in there eyes your not good enough and don't belong there. i have gotten some comments on that and it brought me so down. and from what i know and the musicians i have seen they are the ones just starting out or they have over a 100 fans that are following them. i get that in the beginning it is hard to get reconizion and sometimes work you have spend so many time in gets rejected by others but that is not only with you. and yes art and games get seen more (mabey? i am not sure i have no facts for that) but it is hard to be seen the first time. i know that people don't follow me for my art or atleast i don't think so because i am not that good. and if i am not helpfull or react to others nobody would have seen me. i know musician face this stuff but also others face that stuff. i never said they didn't i just wanted to say that your litterly shutting out everyone else because they say ''musicians are the most courages and driven people on the face of the earth'' yes they can be but not because of a single word. it is about what they did and what they do. not because there a musician. yes they have challanges in there life because of music but only the personality can give them those labels and not there choice of career. and i still think it is not fair to shut everyone else but musicians out of that statement.

Troisnyx 2018-07-08 12:38:31

@NyanaCreation "Don't go," as I mentioned, would have resulted in my head being lopped off. Sorry. I did say 'on pain of death,' did I not? My parents were the kind of people who would have done that. I went, I got the 2:1, and I had nothing more to do with them thereafter.

As for personality giving people the label 'courageous' and not their choice of career: I beg to differ. Someone who subscribed to the army to kill people is not 'courageous,' he is a brute, and brutes kill people. There are some jobs that don't come with the label 'courageous,' and that involves MLM salespeople, and those whose jobs come out of convenience. Courage can be shown *in* the workplace, but these examples are few and far between.

Any artistic profession is not for the faint of heart, which is a point of yours I agree with, but remember that we had the minstrel -- and therefore 700+, 800+ years of fickle tastes, sucking up to people, and being careful not to offend the wrong people with that which we believe in so passionately. In fact, I might say the musician's struggle is pretty much Older Than Feudalism in that regard, because we'll have had that when musicians' names were first known, and STILL TODAY people treat us like a pile of shit. We've dealt with that for millennia.

NyanaCreation 2018-07-08 19:00:40

@NyanaCreation @Grandvision i think it still shuts out people then. i am against that. i would have wordered it like this ''people who face {insurt your own thing} are the most courages and driven people in my opinion'' this way you don't shut out anybody and put it in your opinion so it is not a fact and get seen in the wrong way. but don't worry i am not mad. but i am one of those artist and i think i am non of those. i face those chalenges but i am not that in my own eyes :p anyway i hope your not to offended about what i said and i hope you have an awesome day further ^^

NyanaCreation 2018-07-08 19:26:56

@Troisnyx i understand where your coming from but i still think the person determans if they are courages or not. yes a career choice can bring them challenges and they make a choice how to deal with it. that choice in my opinion can determain if they are or not and most people make a sertant choice because they have some kind of personality. careers can give you an oppertunity to be courages but the career doesn't make you courages. like you said if a person goes into an army only for killing people in my opinion they are not courages but they still can be. it depends on the actions that they take while there doing there job.

anyway about the part that musicians are treated like shit. of course i don't know how much you get comments on music where people treat you like shit but that is a risk you take when you put your creations out into the world. you put something out in the world that is yours and of course some people won't like it and yes people will tell you that but it is something that comes with it. if you use there energy in a positive light it will only get you more spark to work and learn more. atleast for me. also i tried to look up if musicians struggle longer then feudalism and i couldn't find any proof. anyway yes it happends that you get treated that way and that sucks alot but unless you try to get something good out of it, it will only bring you down. i am not saying it doesn't happen and i know that it sucks but atleast try to get something out of it besides anger. it happends and the only thing you can do with it is deal with it. it happend in the past and it happends now yes but don't complain about it but also try to do something about it and change it. even if you change one mind that is something but if it bothers you so much tell them that if they find it bad, that they also should tell why and tell how to improve. that is what i do. anyway i am sorry that you are treated like shit (if you are treated like that) and i hope it improves soon.

Troisnyx 2018-07-08 19:43:12

@NyanaCreation Have you ever heard of Pa Pab-bir Gagir-gal? Ancient Mesopotamian musician. I probably spelt his name wrong but I at least remember the syllables. We don't know the kind of music he played, but he was the first musician whose name was known. It's safe to surmise that under the kings of those days -- Mesopotamia, Rome, hell, even the Middle Ages, music taste and demand was fickle and musicians were among the lowest castes. Not much different from today, except we don't call it a caste system, we just call it "the way things work." QED: older than feudalism. Any history of early music could reveal that better than I can, and give a few exceptions to the general rule.

As for saying "deal with it," it's easy, very easy to point the finger and say 'deal with it's without any concrete help or pointers. Just saying. What on earth do you think I've been doing these past years? Biding my time and slogging my butt off, like everyone else, and holding feebly on to a dream I had when I was a child. I seek help for the nightmares and flashbacks resulting from what I've been through, and I often wonder if it, combined with my own efforts, is even enough.

You probably didn't mean it, but you came across as pretty patronising. I don't hold it against you though, I know you were trying to help ;_;

NyanaCreation 2018-07-08 20:16:13

@Troisnyx i send you responds on message (i find it a bit rude to bother GrandVision with this)